Lazker Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 (edited) Hi Javier, This is what I came up with about the rook-ending. White to move and win First thing that comes to mind is 1. Ra2 to support the passed pawn on the a-file. But it allowes 1. .. Rh1+ 2. Kg4 Rh8! 3.a7 Ra8 when I believe Black wins or at least draws. After your lesson about Skewers a new pattern is recognised! Namely a Skewer on the 7th or 8th rank allowing the passer to be pushed. However there are still some things in the way; the white King and the pawn on e7. So what to do first? Push the a-pawn? Move the King out of the way so the Rook can have the h-file? Or maybe something with the e pawn? A. Moving the King with 1. Kg4 is not a forcing move and Black can just take on e7 1. ..Kxe7 2.a7 and now 2. .. Rd8! (2. .. Ra1? 3. Rh8! Rxa7 4. Rh7+ Kd6 5. Rxa7 and White wins) The difference between Ra1? and Rd8 is that after the latter White cannot play 3. Rh8 with the treath of 4. a8/Q B. Playing 1. e8/Q+ however is pretty forcing so maybe this is the move. 1. .. Kxe8 and now 2. a7 looks to be winning, but maybe Black can come up with a nice defence. Black can play two moves now Rd8 or Ra1. B1. 2. .. Rd8 3. Kg6 Ke7 (The two alternitives lose instantly; 3. .. Ra8? 4. Rh8+ and 3. .. Kd7? 4. Rd2+ Kc7 5. Rxd8 and promotion) 4. Rh7+ Kd6 5. Rb7 Ra8 ( 5. .. Kc6? 6. Rb8!) 6. Rxb6+. This position is too hard to evaluate for me, White seems better to me but I can't back it up with a plan. B2. What about 2. .. Ra1 then? 3. Kg4 and White has calculated that 3. .. Rxa7 brings us our neat Skewer with 4. Rh8+ Kd7 5. Rh7+ Kc6 6. Rxa7. Black can postpone defeat with a couple of checks 3. .. Rg1+ 4. Kh3 Ra1 5. Kg3 Rg1+ but now the King doesn't have to go to the h-file 6. Kf2 Ra1 7. a8/Q+ Rxa8 8. Rh8+ and wins C. The third move for white is 1. a6 which forces 1. .. Ra1 when Rd8 as before is not possible because of the pawn on e7. and now 2. e8/Q+ Kxe8 transposes into the B2-line which wins for White!! So by playing 1.a6 the line B1 is not possible. And that was the very line where I couldn't find an immediate win for White. I hope my analyses is correct Greetz Lazker Edited July 1, 2007 by Lazker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi Lazker, I also followed Javier's lesson of yesterday and found the final postion for study very entertaining. The solution I found was : 1.e8=Q Kxe8 ; 2.Kg6! (to allow a white rook check skewer on the h file . You say 2.a7 "looks winning". May be it looks, but it does not win after 2...Ra1 followed by Rxa7 or a8 because the winning skewer check is hindered by the Kh5.) 2...Ra1 (2...Rg1+ doesn't change anything after 3.Kf6 Rg8 ; 4.Rd2+- no skewer this time but I don't see any saving move for Black) 3.a7+- and now the skewer will function. I hope all that is correct, because I'm writing blindly without seeing the initial position, just after having read your post Oh ! I just realise that your post is just below my reply ?!! Gens una sumus, Zorg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazker Posted July 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi Zorg, After your suggestion 1.e8=Q+ Kxe8 2.Kg6 Black can play 2. .. Ke7! instead of Ra1 and after 3. a7 comes 3. .. Rd8 and White can't Skewer. So I still think 1.a6 is the right move order and only after Ra1 to play e8=Q so the Black Rook can't go to d8 to stop the a-pawn Lazker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 Nice work, Lazker, but in line B2, are you sure you haven't found a tougher defence for black? As for Zorg's suggestion, yes, it doesn't quite work, although 3...Rg1+! is a clear improvement because white's King is forced to walk into the h-file, blocking his own pawn. For example 4.Kh5 Ra1, and eventhough a7 can still be protected by playing 5.Kg4 (so that if 5...Rxa7?? 6.Rh7), black can simply go 5...Kd6!, 6.Rh7 b5! when it's white who is fighting for a draw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi Zorg, After your suggestion 1.e8=Q+ Kxe8 2.Kg6 Black can play 2. .. Ke7! instead of Ra1 and after 3. a7 comes 3. .. Rd8 and White can't Skewer. So I still think 1.a6 is the right move order and only after Ra1 to play e8=Q so the Black Rook can't go to d8 to stop the a-pawn Lazker Hi Lazker, You are right, I completely missed Rd8, without chess set or diagram in front of me ??!. Therefore, back to the study.... Zorg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi Javier, I think I have got the solution of the study that time. What makes me think so is that almost all of the moves founded are forcing ones. 1.a7, Ra1 ; 2.e8=Q, Kxe8 ; 3.Kg4, Rg1+ (forced, only mean to stop the skewer, but...) ; 4.Kh3! (may be !!), Ra1 ; 5.Kg2 (threatening the skewer again) , 5... Ra2+ (loses but what else ?) 6.Kg3 and wins. When we will have grasped the solution, please, can you tell us the author's name if that is a study ? Or respectively the players's names if it's a practical game, of which I doubt. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazker Posted July 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Now I do see an improvement for Blacks defence! After 1. a7 Ra1 2. e8/Q+ Kxe8 3. Kg4 Kd7! is a better defence because after 4. Rh8 threatening a8/Q Black has 4. .. Rg1+! 5. Kh3 Rh1+ winning the Rook by a Skewer So ... White cannot play Rh8 on move 4 but instead 4. Kg3 allows 4. .. Kc6 Hmmm... I have to look at the position some more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorg Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 We are now looking at the improvement of the improvement . True your 3...Kd7! is very clever and frankly, even after having rechecked my variations I had not anticipated it. And this is a real blunder as in a position with so reduced material, such a king move is a natural candidate ?! I begin the analysis right from the start to avoid errors. 1.a7, Ra1 ; 2.e8=Q, Kxe8 ;3.Kg4, Kd7! (your "new" move) . And now mine : 4.Rh1! With the following possibilities : 4...Rxa7, 5.Rh7+ Skewer 4...Ra2, 5.Rh8, Rg2+ ; 6.Kh3 winning 4...Ra3,a5 or a6 ; 5.Rh8 winning By the way this solution seems to clinch whatsoever you play as your 4th black move : 4...Ke7 or d7 or f7. In each case, 5.Rh1 looks like a killer. But may be you will come with a refutation, now I am no more sure of anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Not bad at all! Ok, I'm enclosing a file with all the analysis. skwproblem.cbv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepmex Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hello!!!! I am joining recently Chessnia Bulletin, in 15 or 20 minutes I got this solution "to rook's endgames" White move and win [FEN "8/4Pk2/Pp2p3/2p1p2K/8/1P3P2/7R/3r4 w - - 0 1"] 1. e8=Q+ Kxe8 2. Kg6 (2. a7 Ra1 3. Kg6 Rxa7 (3...Kd7 4. Rh7+ Kd6 5. Kf6 Ra3 6. Re7 Kc6 7. Rxe6+ Kb5 8. Kxe5 Rxa7 9. f4 Ra6 10. f5 Kb4 11. f6 Kxb3 12. f7 Ra8 13. Re8 Rxe8+ 14. fxe8=Q) 4. Rh8+ Kd7 5. Rh7+ Kc6 6. Rxa7 Kb5 7. Re7 Kb4 8. Rxe6 b5 9. Rxe5 Kxb3 10. Rxc5 Kb4 11. Rxb5+ Kxb5 12. f4 Kc5 13. f5 Kd5 14. f6 Ke6 15. f7 Ke7 16. Kg7 Ke6 17. f8=Q) 2...Ke7 3. Rh7+ Kd6 4. Kf6 Ra1 5. a7 Ra3 6. Re7 * How it continues ? it isn't so predictable and requires more lines, but most of us having coincidance with these firts variants.... i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted July 3, 2007 Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Deepmex, in your variation, after 5.a7 b5! is much better as black gets his queenside pawns rolling. My advice, however, is that you download the file which I posted earlier on in this thread, as that shows the correct winning line for white. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazker Posted July 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hi all! Zorg I also looked at 4. Rh1 Ra2 but then decided it would be a repetition of moves after 5. Rh2 Ra1 not seeing that now the check on the g-file could not be followed up with another check at the h-file winning the Rook on h8. Nice work! I very much enjoyed analysing this study, thanks for that Javier! Yesterday I even discussed it at my Chessclub, but we just couldn't recognise this last finesse :-) I will enjoy to enlight them next week, haha Greetz Lazker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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